Testicular Cancer Meetings: The Field Report
5 Archetypes of Male Advice
And why 4 of them are garbage.
Shoutout to Dr. Glover on the top right
The Field Report
Anthony: The Problem
The testicular Cancer Meeting
Anthony: The Problem
Anthony: Hi. I write this knowing full well that there will be judgement that follows. So let us commence.
My wife and I got married almost 11 years ago. I was a Baptist, she was Southern Baptist. (SB is basically Baptist on speed, complete with high worshiping hands and low skirts. And zero tolerance for good music.) We fought from the beginning. I remember our wedding rehearsal was a disaster, and our wedding day was even worse (that was my family’s fault, but different subject). There was lots of crying and little sex on our honeymoon.And so we fought. And fought.
Five years ago I said goodbye to God, the Bible, and church, and I started having affairs. I was so tired of the fights. WWII would have been rest compared to our marriage. We’ve been separated for about a year now, I moved out six months ago. We’re still going to counseling, but it’s all coming to a head. She knows about the affairs, but still wants to try. As for me, I want to WANT to try, but I’m too drained and depressed and bitter.
The problem is, she’s the perfect wife in every other way, and she’s a wonderful human being (minus that whole Southern Baptist thing). It’s just that, our compatibility was forged in deeper fires than Mordor. The kids are messed up by our separation, which doesn’t make things any easier. She asks me constantly if I’m sleeping around, rightly so, but it just causes me to want to sleep around just to justify her questions/accusations.
I can’t enjoy anything with her in my life. I found some new hobbies that I’ve been growing in, but there she is, a constant, nagging voice, and I’m on the verge of quitting those hobbies, and I’m back to being a hermit like I was in most of our marriage. All the while, she’s stuck at home dealing with screaming kids who won’t let her sleep. If I go over there and help, according to her, I make things worse. I’m leaving a lot of stuff out, but based on that little bit, what are your thoughts on the subject? I’m trying to gather ideas or points of view I haven’t thought of before. Thank you in advance.
This is the frustrating part. we just walked into a testicular cancer meeting where our boy here is lamenting his balls. Seated around him are five men. There are more, but there are only five that matter.
Daniel knows that he is the herd. Daniel has no insight, no understanding, no empathy, sympathy, or even cares for his brother. Daniel is a neo-neolithic man. He worships the Venus of Willendorf. If you don’t know what that is, it’s a 20,000 - 30,000 BE statue about a foot tall, depicting an extremely voluptuous nude woman. She was the fertility god of the cavemen. She is the figure that prehistoric man worshiped. We pretend we are fancy with all our new fangled technology, but we have regressed (or perhaps never left) that same, core belief that we worship that one true god. Jesus is dead, he died long ago, and Venus lives forever.
Daniel doesn’t want to help Anthony, Daniel wants Anthony to get back in line and show piety to Venus. He only has one tool for that, shame. He incessantly shames Anthony, anything he holds as virtuous and good in his life he will throw at Anthony, so Anthony feels sufficiently bad that he does what he’s told. If Anthony kills himself because of it, well that’s tragic, just so long as he followed the script though no one has to feel bad about it. Respect whamen, worship Venus, do the right thing. And by right I mean whatever she wants it to mean.
Peter doesn’t know anything, but Peter likes to be a part of things. He says a lot of words, but they are meaningless Pablum. Peter is desperately afraid of making a call, standing by it, or searching his experiences for any insight. Peter just wants a friend. Peter will say what he has to say to fill the room with noise, because that is what Peter wants to do. Humans are social, so the more words, the more human, right? And through this use of puking sweet words, he hopes that he will drown out the stench of reality. It’s OK Anthony, you can cry now. And when Peter throws an answer, the problem is that it’s a non answer. Leave her, or stay with her, those are you choices Anthony, so follow your feelings and use your spirit to guide you over the path of blah blah blah. Flipping a coin man, you sometimes get heads, sometimes tails. Good luck! Peter is worse than Daniel, at least Daniel has a goal, Peter just loves to play with himself and pretend it’s useful.
David is no smarter than Peter, but David is Self aware. David knows that he is an idiot, so he cannot offer any advice. The thing though, is David is not a sheep in search of a shepherd. Dave is a reinforcer of his shepherd. Dave will tell Anthony to trust in the authority that he trusts. Sometimes, David says to read this book he read, and it will answer all the questions. Sometimes, david will point you to a marriage counselor, and if you already have one, a better one. I don’t know what they do, but the word marriage and counsel is in the title, so that’s exactly what you need, right? This is the guy who helped get the Patriot Act signed into US law. Never mind it had nothing to do with Patriotism, all that matters is the veneer, we can worry about the rationalizations afterwords. Dave shows uplifting videos and memes, Dave suggest crystals, meditation and yoga. Dave even goes so far as to think that the man in the sky can be the authority, just think real hard and Jesus will put the answer into your head Anthony. David has to be the most useless one of all, he’s an extension of an authority, at least Peter is an individual.
Then there’s Cliff. Cliff has a bone to pick, with what? Who knows, the only thing we can guarantee is it has nothing to do with Anthony. Cliff takes the opportunity to see Anthony is a man of faith, and decides that he needs to rant about his own shitty childhood, why the faith destroyed him. Cliff is another narcissist who got dropped into someones story, and now desperately fights to make it about himself. All it takes is a second Cliff, and we can safety ignore Anthony and the original situation. They stand in their testicular cancer meeting by the coffee machine, bickering with the Hegelian method, because bloodsport is how we solve problems. No one likes Cliff, but Cliff doesn’t care as he’s too busy masturbating into the mirror and throwing it in his own face. Again, no one likes Cliff, especially Cliff.
It’s not just me, and there are varying degrees of it, but the one guy whose been quietly sitting in the corner has insight. He looks past the story and reads between the lines. Darren has read this story a hundred times already, he knows how it usually goes. And when Anthony’s story misses certain details, or adds others, Darren knows that something is there that Anthony either wants us to know, or wants to hide from us. When he wants us to know something about his story, he’s telling us what he thinks is important. When he hides something from us, we know that Anthony knows it’s his problem and he’s ashamed of it. We hide the ‘badness’ as Dr. Glover, author of No More Mr. Nice Guy would put it. Anthony created a covert contract with himself, and luckily Darren isn’t one for bullshit, he knows whats up.
First, there’s the way the question is framed. He knows full well there is judgment, meaning negative judgment, but decided to post anyways. Why? If this was a problem he wanted solved he wouldn’t post in a place where people ignore that. Why put yourself on the cross for people to throw stones? There’s only one reason a guy puts himself there, because he gets off on it. It’s a weird, innately masculine desire to be absolved of sins through the fire of judgment. I can’t explain it, I can’t show the root of it, I just know it’s there. This man doesn’t want his problems solved, what he wants is to be told he is a bad person, because he is guilty for his actions, and once he has that identity, it soothes the dissonance in his life. Lacking an authenticity in ones life builds a mental debt, and this is the pressure value. It’s literally what is meant when we say
feelz over realz.
And when he says let us commence, that reads like something you’d say when you wanted a humble brag. I did some bad things, but they were difficult and amazing, the emotions were a rush, but I come to you humbly, to talk of my sins. Once you’ve seen it a few times, you get that sense of self righteousness that always rubs me the wrong way. It’s the first indication that a man won’t listen to anything that betters his life, and will chose to ignore any effort you spend. The smart guy will file this under ‘can’t be helped’ and move onto the next poor bastard.
This is almost a word for word re enactment of 90% of field reports I’ve seen. The entire story is told from the female perspective, and never in a positive way. She screwed up every aspect of the relationship from the start of the story. The question that he so carefully avoids:
Why did he not react to any of this stuff?
If it was that bad, where was the boundary enforcement?
At what point did he decide not to let her go?
I’ve spoken before on the lack of utility in vetting a woman, and this is a prime example. The summary of his criteria was that she went to a church like his, on speed [his words.] Once he invested his ego into that set of values (or the veneer of values,) everything else became irrelevant, even though, as you see in the remainder of the post, it was clearly vital to the long term fulfillment of this relationship, and the family unit that came from it. He brings up two specific grievances. I know they are important, as it’s the only part of himself in the story, everything else is vague or externalized anger at this whamen for not fulfilling his fetishized narcissistic fantasy This is the ideal; he has built an idealized concept of what the perfect woman, or what we call the unicorn, is in his life. This ideal likely involved whatever peer acceptance has been drilled into his head from childhood and given to him by his church authority. He did not see his wife as a person with her own desires, but as a means to fulfill his communities, and his ego’s, ideal. What else can a woman do in this situation, but disappoint him? The only reaction to this narcissistic fantasy when the fetish doesn’t agree to be part of the narrative?
Everything that this man is being shamed for was the manifestation of his rage.
The infidelity gets its own breakdown. This is an amoral assessment. Once you understand the nature of sexual dynamics, the female and the male mind, and how they differ, you realize there are two types of infidelity. I don’t call it cheating, because this isn’t a game, and there are two sets of rulebooks, one for the slave morality, and one for the master. Men sleep around because of abundance, or because of validation. This man was clearly in the latter category. Some men are just given too many options by too many women. We can nickname these guys Chad, affectionately named after the college frat boy that effortlessly plowed through the cheerleading squad, it’s essentially that. And the thing about Chad is that Chad is honest. Everything he does, his body, his language, everything is completely congruent. Chad eventually settles down with a woman, gets married. Chad sometimes steps out, but he is what he is. The wife knew it, he knew it, it’s known. Chad has the good sense (or should) that while honesty is the key to a relationships longevity, the underlying reason for it is because a woman fears losing the emotional commitment of her man, much in the way a man fears the physical commitment of his woman. Why? Men want paternal assurances, it’s the only reason we are hardwired for monogamy at all. Infidelity from a woman taps into that limbic brain anxiety, after which we wrap our frontal lobe around it with a multitude of excuses.
“It’s about saving the west!” Sure it is, keep reading Evola, I’m sure the answer will align perfectly with your desires dude.
The woman, however, is worried about losing that commitment to another woman. Chad smashes and bounces. He always comes home, and there are never parts of his paycheck missing on his side-pieces. It’s not ideal, but a woman would rather share a high value man than be saddled with a low value one. I’ve seen a few, growing up. The wife almost always left once the last kid left the house, but they lasted longer than just about any marriage I had seen.
What this man did was seek validation. His wife, whom I should more accurately call his fetish, is going off script. He needs the validation from other woman that he is still a man, he still has the identity of a man. How does he get from here to there? By creating other fetishes. Now his story has gone from the one the church gave him, to a martyred one. “All these perfect women, and I could have any of them, but I made an oath, and I suffer in silence. Woe is me.”
If anything, the wife deciding to work things out, because that’s what the church told her to do, put another narcissistic injury onto him. She’s supposed to get angry, divorce. She is supposed to do all the heavy lifting while he gets to remaining in his narrative. But she didn’t. She did what the church, her authority, told her to do. This is why they are so confused. Sheep in search of a shepherd, flailing about by their emotions, alone.
That’s why she’s in constant anxiety about his fidelity. The fact that, and I guarantee, they are arguing constantly, acting with no consistency, have no personal boundaries, which I know will be equivalent to the boundaries they give the children, is why the kids are distraught. Granted, a lot of that childhood anxiety is the parents projecting their anxiety onto the kids. In reality, kids have no frame of reference, they are brand new at living, so whatever is presented to them is considered normal for the most part. Parents often use their kids as human shields to defend their ego from their own better sense, this case is a great example of that.
A small piece that isn’t part of this puzzle, but also matters, is that line in that section. “My wife is perfect, except…” I’ve seen it hundreds of times. It’s a tell tale sign that the man is not having sex. It’s a script. Stored in the limbic brain, waiting to come out: “My wife is perfect, except the part where she never sleeps with me, and when she does it’s just her laying there and running through the grocery list in her head.” We can shame the kind of guy who buys a sophisticated sex doll, but is building your own any more noble?
Back to it, the end is the result and consequences of his actions. He has no boundaries, narcissistic fantasies crumbling around him, a fetish that refuses to play ball; she has her own insecurities, anxieties, and her own co dependence is left flapping in the wind. Without someone to be dependent on, it builds up the similar, but opposite anxiety that the narcissistic one has built. Positive levels of narcissism mean leadership. It’s not about who does the dishes, it’s about creating a story where everyone wins, and the actions drive the script, not the other way around.
Anthony is not special, so Anthony has two paths ahead of him. The general path, and the personal path. Generally, he has a horrible set of mental models, a deep narrative that doesn’t jive with reality, and he does not know what he doesn’t know. Others will have to help him, and so they need assurances from him. This could be money, or plain, old fashioned effort, but he has to care more than anyone else does. It’s his life, and he wasn’t able to even tell it from his perspective, even though his actions assume everyone else exists as a set piece to his one man play.
The funny thing about this room, is everyone looks identical. Everyone is fat, has a horribly manicured beard. Everyone wears the same Kirkland Signature sweaters that their wife bought them. A gift that simultaneously assured her that no woman would dare think they stylist and attractive, while at the same time hiding that horrible body they have to lay underneath once every few months. Grin and bear it Susan, it’ll all be over in a minute. Nature has a sense of sympathy in that he only goes for a minute or two on account of his horrible health.
Anthony needs to drop fifty pounds. This both makes Anthony more attractive, but it more importantly makes Anthony focus on actions, discipline, and long term reward for short term impulse control.
Anthony needs to fix his mental models. Darren give him Dr. Glover and Manuel smiths books, When I Say No I Feel Guilty, and No More Mr. Nice Guy. Anthony starts to learn and internalize how he can make himself his own mental point of origin. How does that differ from being the centerpiece of his excessive Narcissism? It’s that he becomes the focus of his actions, not the character in a narrative. As he does more, he becomes more. The identity follows the actions, not the other way around. This is how you avoid that mental debt we talked about earlier. There is no debt, everything is perfectly authentic, there is no contradiction as there was nothing to contradict. If you want to be fancy about it, you’re living the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. The target exists where you were aiming. It sure beats a guy who is shooting at what he wants, then pretending he wanted to hit the target 3 barns down. Didn’t I say earlier that deferring to an authority isn’t a good thing? Yes, and this isn’t pointing to an authority, it’s a tool to solve a problem. Dr. Glover isn’t the ideal you should aspire to. If [the if is important] you want to solve your issues, then his work on the subject will help you understand and combat them. You aren’t hiring a carpenter, you are buying a hammer and building your damned house.
Anthony starts treating his life with full ownership. His house, his kids, his wife… Even if he cannot stand her, it’s not about her, it’s about him. Act as if anyone in his house died tomorrow, how would he conduct himself? Do that and move on. The kids get a fully engaged father who sets boundaries. The wife gets a husband who rules her as the benevolent dictator. This relationship was a stillbirth, but in that there is value. A sparring partner that can test you in ways no other girl can. A new girl doesn’t know your bullshit, isn’t sick of it, and won’t call you out on any of it. A new girl doesn’t test your frame. Don’t throw this gift away.
And this is the personal part. Anthony created breathing room for himself, so that he can make the hard decisions. What does Anthony want? Until he can answer this, he remains in purgatory, building himself a ladder so that he may escape his own personal hell. It’s not up to me to lay out what that should be, but simple wants that most men have. A woman who desires him, enthusiastically has sex with him, stays loyal to his dick, and doesn’t cause more harm to the kids than help. Now he has to look at all the people in his life and see where they fall into his road map. He wants enthusiastic sex? If the wife, great, if not, then she gets first crack at his libido, not sole custody. He wants well raised kids? Sounds like the wife sucks at it, time to scale back hours and be a more active father, learn to set boundaries, and allow them to fail and grow. Thats a topic in and of itself. Does he want freedom? Then he may have to accept he will be the villain here. Divorce, walk away, start his life over, and deal with the consequences. As you can see, there are no right or wrong answers, only consequences and goals. Own one to get the other. If you don’t want it bad enough to be the villain, then you didn’t want it. Go back to the drawing board and re prioritize your goals, do it after leg day at the Gym.
The testicular Cancer Meeting
It’s not just shame by the way. Daniel and his cadre love to signal to each other how good a person they are. It’s much easier to say ‘I’m not Anthony, he’s bad’ than it is to actually earn the respect of your fellow man. Luckily, Daniels friends are pretty crappy at it too. They live the illusion together. Sacrifice anthony to Venus, then pray for a good harvest this year.
Tony: Honestly, I think you are an idiot for cheating. She did not deserve that. Sorry to be so blunt but there it is.
Daniel: 11 years and y’all still haven’t figured that s**t out yet?
Sean: Man up. Leave the childish wants and needs behind. You have children. They should be where you focus. Seriously. Marriage is a constant compromise. From both. Stop thinking about what you need. You ceased being your own priority when you said I do and had children. The priority is t the individual. It's the unit. Your job to hold it down and together. My two cents.
Brian: You are a moron for cheating, you guys never should have gotten married because it sounds like it was obvious even prior to marriage you weren't compatible. So still will never be compatible no matter how much you try to be. Moving forward you need to let her go and try having a civil relationship with her, focus on bettering yourself and being a good father to your children.
Joseph: You are not going to like this answer but you need repent and believe the gospel. You have to man up and stop making excuses for your wicked sin. Adultery is wicked and you don’t get to blame your wife for you giving into your lusts. You need to recognize that you are to represent Christ to her and are to sacrificially love her like Christ loves the church. You are to lead her with your love. And then means you are going to need to be truly repentant for your own sin. You are destroying yourself, your wife, and your kids with your selfishness. I see you live in Louisville. I live just across the river and am a pastor. If you want to get lunch sometime and talk, let me know
Francisco: Move on and focus on being a father. That is your legacy.
Joel: Without knowing a lot of details of your own situation, kids are almost *always* better off when their parents stay together. The idea that divorce and getting along is better is a load of horse s***. In my humble opinion, now that kids are involved, what makes us happy no longer matters. We have a duty to out children, and part of that duty is to stay married to their mother.
Franky: Joel, do you not see how toxic these two are together? Obviously were only getting one side but still. At this point if these two stay together. He’s going to step out again. He doesn’t want to fix it and, here’s what was the worst part, HE FEELS THE MOST UNHAPPY WHEN HES AROUND HER. Your advice is seriously to stay together?
Joel: Yes, my advice is seriously to stay together.Since he's asking our advice, mine is that he understand and do his duty both to his wife and his children. "Stepping out" doesn't have to be inevitable. Choose not to. He doesn't want to fix it? Choose to fix it anyway. We don't feel happy? So what? Why should that mean anything? When we have kids, our own feelings don't mean anything. That fact that he feels a certain way is manifestly *not* the worst part about this. Don't step out on your wife. Be there for your kids. Put their well-being before your own emotions. We have duties. We can talk about manly weekend projects, splitting logs and climbing mountains, but manliness starts with doing our duty. We choose to do our duty whether we like it or not, and regardless of how it makes us feel.
Ben: It sounds like you have some growing up to do, unfortunately. You have chosen to step out on the marriage and you're complaining about her "nagging"? Also, with your description of faith differences, it seems like this goes a lot deeper within you than, what you have essentially said, "we don't get along easily". Maybe you could consider respecting her faith even if you have given up on yours. That alone will help you to recognize that she has a perspective on things also and you can talk to her about it. You at least have put this out publicly for a bunch of guys to provide their insight, which is a step in the right direction. But you definitely have to recognize that marriage includes conflict and needs to include a willingness to address that conflict productively, and that as someone who openly violated the marriage, you are in no position to dictate those terms
Konrad: You missed out the most important: KIDS. Sure we get your personal and rather selfish way of presenting your case, but how many kids and what part of them are you loyal to ? You left God and basic morals , so what about them Stephen Davy I think if you are going to sleep around since you lost all respect for yourself you should have some for her and leave before you do more damage. Anyone who cheats so easily should not be in a relationship with anyone. Pretty simple. Grow up
Ray: Friend, you don't just say "goodbye" to God, you never had a relationship with him in the first place. And if you think cheating on your wife is okay maybe that's where you should start.
Dan: What is peace in the hearts of your children worth to you?
Aubrey: I agree. At least until the children are grown and on their own. The responsibility of being a parent supersedes selfish wants and pursuits.
Doug: You made a covenant. You have children together. You cheated. It’s on you to step to the plate and do whatever is in your power to make this work. If she’s a ‘perfect wife’, then she’s not the problem. She’s even willing to forgive your infidelity, for some reason. Own up. Be the man.
Franky: Dude. I don’t understand people like this. What do you want? You literally just rambled about how you don’t want to be with her but she makes your life easy. -.- Move on. Stop wasting your time and hers.
Peter and his friends cannot help themselves. It’s not that they won’t help, it’s that they can’t. If you weren’t focusing on the individuals, Peter and company would drown out the room with nothing but noise.
Peter: No mold survives sunlight. Bring everything into the open. Fully. Humbly. Without ego. Here’s a motivational video to sooth you.
Richard: Decide. That is all.
Aubrey: Sounds like a basic incompatibility to me brother. It seems the foundation wasn’t solid before you even got started. If you’re interested in salvaging and reviving the relationship that’s going to take time, work and compromise on both sides. Is she w…See More David Bryant Mitchell Counseling will help. Start on some personal counseling right away. You have some things to clarify and fix. I'm not a behavioural health expert, but can hear you pleading for help. I would say depression plays a major role
Sam: Not my place to speak since I’m not married, but you only get one shot at life, it is short, and it ends when you least expect it: why spend it being miserable? I’d find the most amicable way of distancing myself from her if I were you and focus on things that actually make you happy. Do the whole “it’s not you, it’s me” thing, tell her you need some time for yourself and just become absent; she’ll eventually find other things to focus her nagging on.
Mark: The key is having a conversation about boundaries here mate. You guys value different things which is fine but you either set boundaries or you separate.
Steve: Can you do another 5 years, just like this?
Anthony: No. But I’m stupidly optimistic that things can change.
Tate: Without anymore details, this all sounds like a train wreck. Sounds like you as well have some growth to do completely separate from your marriage. The face that her asking “makes” you want to sleep around is a bit concerning. Sucks to say, but it sounds like it’s been so bad for so long that the damage has been done and you should cut your losses and move on. Do better for yourself and the kids.
Lee: There's always room to heal and be better, but it takes effort on both parts.. Otherwise it'll never work. If you're not getting what you need out of the relationship, at the end of the day you're not respected by her, and that breed resentment, and then - here we are. Perhaps she doesn't have the concept of what it is to be a spouse? Not talking about a mom, or a chief cook and bottle-washer, I mean a partner in life.. Someone you can count on. If she's never been brought up in that, then that's not her fault. She's doing what she thinks she's suppose to do, but missing out on what could be so much more. If she wants to work it out, you're blessed beyond belief, but in order to do so, she needs to have some counseling/therapy/marital enrichment something or another to help her understand what it means to be a wife. I would personally have thought that would have been done at church, but it doesn't always work out like that. Good luck my friend.
Andrew: Lee You’re right in that she’s all about the cooking and the housework. But it stops there for her. Sure, she’ll pursue intimacy, but I’m not interested because it’s only going to cause another fight more than likely. And she’s into her housework and I’m into my things, but there is no common interest. Never has been, and that’s paralyzing.
Lee: Andrew, Well, oil and water don't mix, no matter how hard you try. If you didn't take time to get to know one another (really get to know one another) to determine if your differences would be deal-breakers, then you're both at fault. Now you have a responsibility to your children to give them the best you can give. If that means staying together and making it work then stay together and overcome the obstacles and make it work. If it's truly an oil and water scenario, then it'll never work, and the negative vibes will flow down to the kids, and they'll manifest that through rebellion, poor grades in school, trouble with authority figures etc etc.. First off, you must realize after having kids, it's no longer about you and her, it's about your kids. They come first - that doesn't mean stay together for the kids. If the best thing for the kids is to split up, and if you and her both can provide better for them by being apart, then be apart. Just make sure they know you love them, she loves them, this isn't their fault, and you both must continue to co-parent together. That means you work together raising these kids. It's a partnership.. be the best parent you can be, and keep your personal love life out of the front light while doing so.
Edgar: Dude I'm hearing resentment here.. Understandably and justifiably so (or so it seems) - However, you need to put that aside, and look at the overall picture. Seek first to understand the way she's wired, as I mentioned above. Why does she do the things she does, the way she does? There's got to be a thread there that can be unraveled and re-wired if you both want it. On the other hand if it's just something that's deeply ingrained in her, and there is no hope, then this should've come to light much earlier on than now, and you could've dealt with it before having kids.
Matt: Devils advocate What if the best situation for the family as a whole is that the parents aren’t under the same roof, I know plenty of split families who are much happier that way
Herman: Life is short.
Bryan: Anything is possible between two well-intentioned people. It is able to be healed for sure and it can become better than it ever was.
Jim: I don't have much to say as I don't really know what you should do, except make yourself happy before you try to make someone else happy. But, your statement, "She asks me constantly if I’m sleeping around, rightly so, but it just causes me to want to sleep around just to justify her questions/accusations.", is where I had the thought, this guy needs to stop justifying or looking for an excuse for sleeping with ANYONE but his wife. You say counseling is coming to a head. Makes sense. But, overall, is it helping to make any progress in the relationship? If no, I'd move on honestly. If yes, and there's hope, well....keep going. You can get through it if BOTH of you continue to put in the work.
Caleb: My opinion won't have much value because I don't have kids nor am I married but I can say that your kids come first no matter what the situation maybe and anything after that it's all for you so I say take care of your kids and take care of your mind and your body man cause you've only got one of them and you need to be happy cause if you're not happy how are you going to make your kids happy. If your old lady's bringing you down man you just got to call it quits cuz you're just going to be in a puddle of misery for a long time and then you're going to spend days thinking and wondering why you put so much effort into something that was already gone you know that's just what I'm taking from what you typed up but I wish you the best and I hope things work out God loves everyone man everybody makes mistakes there's nothing wrong with trying to fix yourself in and straighten up so best of luck to you man.
Christian: Sounds like mistakes were made and unless you make a decision you’ll never truly be able to learn/grow from them.
Brett: "What are my thoughts?" My question is, "What do you want?" You have to decide if you want to call it quits or work on it. If you have kids, make a hard effort to set your pride aside and do family stuff man. Show the kids how a husband cares for his family. Its easy for me to say since I'm not in your situation but I've been taught to take a "hard right" instead of an "easy left". Good luck.
Khartoum: I'd say you need to hold on to your hobbies and carve out a space and source of positivity in your life. Maybe recommend the same for her.
Andrew: Khurrum That’s what I’m leaning towards. I’ve begged her for years to get her own hobbies, make friends, and have a life. Literally cried with her and begged her. She has made one good friend in the last year, finally.
Lyndon: Be done with it man, beating a dead horse. Divorce and be happy
Stan: You are an individual. There is no one on the planet that is like you. You started this journey alone and you will end it alone. By saying that except and respect other individuality. Otherwise you’ll never be happy.
Travis: Spiritual incompatibility is as big as sexual incompatibility, they can both ruin otherwise great relationships. While I don’t think infidelity is a good answer, staying married may be just as bad of an answer. Find yourself and your inner peace. Then be a part of your kids lives.
Greg: You two individually and as a couple need to strip everything away and determine who you are, what you want to do and be in life and whether that includes the other person or not. For this initial no BS assessment, not about kids. Mortgage, house, logistics, money, religion... Be brutally honest. Not sure if you or her can do that. But this is your deathbed view. How do you want to live your life. Who do you want to share this short dance with? Now layer on where you will meet in the middle and where you won't compromise and where you will defer on kids, sex, religion.. the whole shebang. Can you build a solid relationship, going forward, on mutual trust and respect? If not, don't bother. You're wasting everyone's time. And if not, then focus ALL your energy on co-parenting in the most healthy, productive and positive way possible not for your individual agendas, but for the best interest of the kids. Always bring it back to that.
Sometimes Darren doesn’t put the answer in a package in a pretty bow. Sometimes Darren points out insight, lets the bread crumbs present themselves, lets Anthony learn how to learn from his own experiences. And say what you will about it being incomplete, it’s part of the solution. even Anthony kind of knows this, deep down.
Anthony: I’ve messaged some guys who are more understanding. But like many Christians in my experience, they have to prove their masculinity by kicking others when they’re down (I sadly did that myself as a Christian). They’re the ones I ignore after a sentence or two because that usually means they’ve got it made. Like, I’ve never had a drinking or drug problem, so my two choices to respond to guys that do are: “Get over it and stop using, dumbass,” or sympathize and point them in the direction of someone who could help better than I.
Toby: Are you finding that the answer to problems with the relationship with your wife are not found in other women?
Andrew Toy Toby Wilhelm I find that I’m happiest when I’m not around her
Brett: Never mind the broad, unfair, and inaccurate representations of southern baptists. Is there a question here? I see a tremendous amount of selfish actions and hurt feelings. Are you looking to be justified in your decisions?
Matt: I’d say this from the little you’ve shared. There is a strong chance that whatever junk you’ve both got inside of you is not going away by getting a divorce. It’s just going to poison your next relationships too. So...if you have kids together you might as well work through your junk together. You need some professional counseling and probably need to change the voices you are listening to in your life. There are millions of people in the world in arranged marriages who learn to love someone they don’t even know. You can learn to love your wife again.
Andrew: Matt. Thank you for this. Truly
Michael: What is your idea of a perfect life? Not a perfect WIFE, a perfect LIFE? If you can answer that, then I believe you can probably answer the other parts.
Roberto: You’re asking because you have not given up and I commend you. There’s a part of you, clearly, that wants to make this work. If you have a desire to make it work, you are so fortunate that she’s willing to forgive your indiscretions. You shouldn’t be afraid to be judged in this group. Most people commenting here genuinely care. As Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. There’s a lot of iron in this group and you’re practically guaranteed to Learn a new perspective. If you believe in divorce, then you have an out and might not do the work. You’ve got a failsafe and almost any excuse can lead you to avoid the uncomfortable. If you do NOT believe in divorce, then you will do any and everything to heal these hurts, fight for your relationship, change what you need to change within and build something healthy with boundaries, loving kindness and compassion and forgiveness. One where you don’t blame mostly her for the outcomes and look for excuses to step out with other women. Brandon Stull Here’s the deal. You made a commitment, marriage, and you found excuses to break it. You say you want to want to try, so you don’t want to. Stop playing around. Get the divorce if that’s what you want.
Jose: Brother. Move on. You can still have a cordial relationship as co-parenting adults. It’s healthier for the kids to see their dad enjoying his life and seeing what a real relationship where two people compliment each other.
David is free advertising. Is it even worth listening to David? I like the columns to line up, so why not?
David: Go to Order Of Man website and search for Fix Your Marriage by Fixing Yourself podcast. It's one of the Friday Field Notes. It may not answer your specific questions, but it'll help you see things from a different perspective. Which can, hopefully, help you find the answer you're looking for.
Darren: Turn back to God. Find a church for you and faithfully go. Invite her to go with you every week even if she doesn’t go, keep inviting her and your kids. Become the man/husband/father that you are meant to be. It sounds like your marriage has the potential to be wonderful and it sounds like she will forgive your infidelity—that’s something to say about her. It sounds like there were numerous problems to begin in yalls marriage but church denomination differences were a big problem. As a man, you are the spiritual leader for your family. Step into that role and embrace it no matter the circumstances. You may just end up in a happy healthy relationship or you may end up divorced but you will still be a leader for your children. You will be responsible for them in Gods eyes. Don’t give up your hobbies. Focus on becoming the best you possible.
TJ: Sounds like you may need a different counselor.
Cameron: There’s a video of Jocko, I think it’s called “learn to say good”. You just lined everything out and the problems are from you. This is a great opportunity to become the man and leader you were created to be. You really don’t want to be a hermit do you? I imagine you want to walk into your home and be respected and loved... good. Time to work on you.
Michael You said it yourself. You can’t enjoy anything with her in your life.
David: Chris Ashworth thanks. Had a stormy marriage. Marriage counseling helped, but until we started seeing DIFFERENT counselors on our own (we didn't even go to the same office), it didnt get truly better.
Chris I’m working as a life coach and have to offer some pro bono work
David: First off, you shouldn’t have married her The challenge is you married someone NOT of your exact faith. Marriage is already a challenge even when you pick the right person of the same faith. Marriage is the most important decision you will ever make in your lifetime because it will affect everything else...It doesn’t sound like you knew that With that said, the liberals will tell you that the right decision is to focus on yourself and do whatever you think is the right thing to do... The conservatives will tell you to toughen up and make your children and wife the priority over your own needs... If you believe in God and want HIS mercy, I would suggest you show mercy towards your wife as she has towards you (she is willing to forgive you right?) Unless your wife is physically, mentally, or verbally abusive to the point where you should call the cops... then I highly suggest that you do some soul searching, reset your expectations, and just fix your marriage no matter what the cost... Also, nobody is an expert at marriage and there’s a lot of self discovery here... I learned that I’m horrible at communicating my wants and needs to my wife because of some mindset issues from my past or upbringing. Read a lot, pray a lot, repent a lot!!! This is a good book check it out
Cliff is annoying, we don’t like Cliff.
Cliff: I couldn't handle the southern baptist thing. Somebody preaching a bunch of fairy tales to me
Aristotle: I don't understand fellas who come up on here to dog him. Doesn't he seem a little flustered by HIS situation as it is? He has to live with the consequences of his choices and actions not us. You do not support a brother like that. I'm not suggesting anyone should be a 'yes man' and hell, even he anticipated judgement, but I don't know how constructive that is. Can anyone just help him his thought process, or do we have to kick a man whilst he is down too?
Aubrey: Aristote, sometimes a kick in the ass is what’s necessary to wake a person up. I don’t see anyone “dogging” on him in a negative way. To the contrary, they’re offering straightforward and plain spoken advice.
Andy: This is why Christianity is bullshit, and full of hypocrites. All these so called Christians bashing this guy when the Bible teaches you forgiveness and acceptance? Christians are the most judgmental people on earth, they only accept you if it’s a sin they are ok with. I wouldn’t worry too much about it, to me it’s pretty simple. If your wife wasn’t taking care of your needs it’s only natural to seek it elsewhere. Now that being said, you’ve already been caught so she’ll never forget it and you’ll probably be hearing about it for years if you work it out. Maybe time to move on
Carl: Andy if you think Christians people are perfect, you are in for rude awaken. Christians aren’t suppose to be perfect nor are better than others.
Andy: Carl what part of my comment made you believe I think Christians are perfect in any way? I know they aren’t better than others even though they like to act like it. Timothy DeVoe The relationship that you need to fix first is the one with your creator. You need to ask yourself if you ever truly had a real relationship with God. Were you simply going through the motions in your beliefs? Based on the fact that you have no problem with your recent choices, then it’s safe to assume that you do not share a love for the Bible and it’s commandments like it sounds like your wife does. I have witnessed in my life that when you get right with the Lord that He will help fix everything else, including your relationships. If you refuse Christ’s offer of salvation, then nothing in your life will get better and your relationships with your wife and possibly even your children may suffer and grow apart. Please return to your faith and watch your marriage and other relationships get better than they ever were. I PROMISE you that they will Frank Musulinaro I agree with what Darren Bertram and Matt Lombardi said above so I won't repeat what they said but urge you to read what they have to say. In addition, seek the moment in your life that made you fall in love with your wife. In my opinion, love doesn't die, it just gets buried under other emotions once we stop focusing on it. It's just been my experience. My wife probably should have divorced me several times by now. I'm so thankful that she didnt, and so is she. I was too focused on my own stuff that my priorities for my family faltered. Keep fighting for love bro. Love is not something we buy at the dollar store and throw out once it stops working. That's what is wrong with the world today... the value of the love of others has decreased while the value of the love of self has skyrocketed. As for God, you may have left Him... but He never left you brother. Forget about man made religion and denominations and focus on His love. There are many here that care about you man. You're not in this alone. I'm praying for you and your precious family right now.
Doug: I grew up southern baptist and have been back a handful of times in the past 30 years. There’s no way I would marry someone from that church. They’re hateful and spiteful and I have no doubt she has people regularly telling her how bad and sinful you are and that she’s a bad person because she failed to change you into their idea of what you should be. It’s one big guilt trip.